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Gopher's Minions
Phelan

More and more laggy areas

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As much as I love the activity and creativity of the community, the number of areas with really bad lag is getting worrying. Crossroads is a known problem due to the banners in the Banner Hall, Jeancly's World Tree with it's MTC is laggy as hell for me and others with older computers, and now Pajook's tower a little east of spawn with it's sorting system is making a major "travelling route" impassable for some.

No idea how many of us are affected negatively by this, but especially when it comes to more or less central areas, one should be able to expect lag-free playing.

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Doing some investigating tonight. There's a rough squarish area in spawn itself that is the problem. It extends basically from 191 to 144 in X and -330 to -390 in Y. In general, I'm getting 35 fps in the whole area looking inwards and downwards, around 130 fps looking outwards, and it varies from around 100 fps to 440 fps looking downwards outside that area.

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My point is that there are server rules about no huge animal farms and redstone contraptions that are intended to keep the lag low. When something laggy is set up that doesn't disturb anyone, it's usually given an Okay, but when people do get disturbed, it should be perfectly fine to insist on the rules being followed and, if necessary, enforced.

And no, I don't mean your MTC, I can easily avoid that area in most cases. Crossroads is/was a bit more of an issue since it was - and sometimes still is - the central meeting place. But spawn and the directly surrounding area really needs to be as lag-free as possible.

Edited by Phelan

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Yeah identifying the problem is the problem. I was on last night and I get no lag at spawn. I was getting a 8 to 15 fps drop at the MoT headquarters (Pajoonk's tower to the east) but  I havent really checked it out when the sorter is running. And that seemed the same for others on as well. Several us reported no lag at spawn. While others found it noticeable. Without being able to figure out why it is happening a solution is impossible. I play  on the server for the community and have learned to live with the lag at crossroads . It is only really bad the first time you load the area for a session. But I understand why most people avoid the area. I fully support making sure spawn doesn't become the same. Now if we can just figure out how. 

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First of all you guys seem to mix up terms 'lag' and 'framerate issue'. While it's not uncommon to refer to framerate issues as lag, it's only okay if you still realise the difference between server/network lag and drops in framerate.

All the things mentioned here are framerate issues. No redstone contraptions rule doesn't really apply here as that's not the biggest problem and those rules were really meant to mostly fight off the server lag. That also answers @jeancly's question, even if it would be possible to focus more resources on those areas, which is not possible, it still wouldn't achieve anything as there is no lag. The problem doesn't lie in server's resources, it lies in player's PC's resources or rather Minecraft's inability to use those resources efficiently.

The only thing we can really do is revise certain sections of the map and tried to optimise them, simplify them, remove unnecessary decorations, reduce amounts of item frames, armour stands, signs and so on. Pretty much what Jeancly had to do with the World Tree back when the FPS was even worse than it is now.

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What's going to be the "standard" setup that players need to cater to? I have no shaders or texture packs and get 60 FPS at all times in all areas, but someone with "ultraextreme" shaders and 64x64 textures would be crippled in a lot of areas with 5-10 FPS. So do I need to cater to them when I build things? Do I just have to cater to myself? Is there a middle ground I should aim for, and how would I know what it is if I myself don't use shaders or texture packs?

It wouldn't be ideal to have a maximum entity count per chunk restriction, but perhaps a guideline would help players make sure their areas aren't too bad. Of course, it would be relaxed depending on where you are on the map as well. 300 item frames on the wall near crossroads would be far more terrible than 300 on the wall at the corner of the world.

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There is a big diffrence in fps drops at someones build like the world tree and spawn. The reason is spawn is used for a center for allmost everything but to state the most importnant one, the entrance to the middle of the nether highway. If I wanted to go far north from far south I would warp to spawn n go from there. the by far biggest issue with a laggy spawn however are new people that joins. Our servers stability is gonna be jugded on their firsthand impression. you might say "well maybe if they would just explore!" well sure but we cant really tell that to them before they even join now can we nor is that really a solution. Minionland is great. Its gotten extremely stable, lagfree, fairly high view distance and normal redstone ticks now. the staff has worked very hard on achieving this. I find it sad that some new arrivials will jugde minionland on an issue at our spawn and not get to see the awesomeness that is minionland.

@Arrogant sure. if you run without anything on a standard-ish PC or no one is loading in the east you might not see the problem. Some people however (teddy) is crashing at spawn and will now avoid it. I seen alot of newcommers to the server leave allmost right away as they joined aswell. sure some came back but they probally crashed aswell. The problem is very real and needs to be fixed.

-NTclaymore.

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21 minutes ago, NTclaymore said:

Some people however (teddy) is crashing at spawn and will now avoid it. I seen alot of newcommers to the server leave allmost right away as they joined aswell. sure some came back but they probally crashed aswell. The problem is very real and needs to be fixed.

Since when has spawn a lag problem? The only change at spawn that happend recently, as far as I know, is the new SS-HUB made by @Pajoonk and I don't really remember it having that many entity's. Therefor only thing I can think of the are all the glass pane's in the station that could cause lighting updates.

I doubt that the MoT headquarters influence (when sorting) would be noticeable at spawn. I don't know if any of this is the cause but it's all I can think of.

Edited by Krikkeee

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23 hours ago, Krikkeee said:

Since when has spawn a lag problem

As Rod pointed out there isn't a  lag problem at spawn. Certain people are getting fps drops because of the new slipstream station apparently.  To make matters worse many of us experience no fps drop so difficult to address a problem that is not even clear to everyone.

 

On 5/23/2017 at 6:18 AM, NTclaymore said:

I seen alot of newcommers to the server leave allmost right away as they joined aswell.

This has been happening forever to assume everyone who joins and then leaves does so because of fps is highly unlikely.  I have had no  fps drop at spawn. Gopher was there on his stream and did not mention it and Gopher is highly sensitive to those things. Several others I asked also do not see it. Teddy was there the whole time we  "investigated"  it without incident leading me to believe the crashes she is having has another cause. 

 

On 5/22/2017 at 4:04 PM, Arrogant said:

What's going to be the "standard" setup that players need to cater to?

This is the real question which will be a beast to answer. Finding a consensus would be difficult to say the leas. I would guess we just leave it to Rod and Gopher to come up with that answer if there is one to be had. 

I had heard no complaints about spawn until  it was brought up by Sanamia and NT.  Mainly in a stray comment here and there culminating in the investigation. Darkfire was present and reported no problem. Rod has said there is no server lag which limits this to fps. Perhaps we need to have everyone willing to switch to vanilla without texture and shaders and check their fps at spawn. Then at the very least we would have a sample size of who actually has a problem and how much of a problem. 

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okay - here's a few shots - no resource pack, no shaders - only optifine 'n forge.  I usually see a fairly wide swing anytime I go to xroads; less so at spawn. It doesn't happen to such an extreme on my home plot but I'm almost the only one out there other than creepers and the occasional visitor to the underwater temples.  I have no idea what this tells you but hope it helps.

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