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Krikkeee

The Nether SS upgrade (ghast-protection and rails)

Some questions:  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the idea of merging the Nether SS with the rails?

    • Yes
    • No
      0
    • Yes, but... (please explain)
  2. 2. Would you mind a raise of the current SS to allow more elaborate station design and possebly some basic redstone?

    • Yes, I'm oke with a 1 block raise
    • Yes, I'm oke with a 2 block raise
    • Yes, I'm oke with a 3 block raise
    • No, I would rather not have the SS raised.


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1) Main Nether slipstream upgrade:

Since @Pajoonk made me a member of the ministry of transport (for the main nether-slipstreams), I have been going around the main Nether SS. While doing that, I noticed that they mostly use 1 row of ice with 1 row of lowered slabs or something similar next to it (see picture). Because most of them are only 2 rows wide I already started to widen them to a 3 wide SS so 2 people can use it at the same time. (EDIT: east and west SS are widened)

Since boats are slightly wider than 1 block, they will always be on top of the ice and lose no speed as long as there are no blocks right next to the ice (on the same top-level).

H6KlACE.png

Since the slipstreams don’t have any defences against ghast whatsoever, I’m planning to add walls and ceiling to them. For the walls, I would suggest a design like in the picture above to shield the SS from ghasts. While they can still see you through the small gaps created by the slabs, they cannot hit you because of the fences (I tested it in singleplayer). You can however kill the ghasts from within the SS with the use of arrows.

As you can see the pillars in the ‘walls’ have a dyed block (clay in this case), the colour of the dye is supposed to match the colour of the highway underneath giving players a way to easily orientate themselves. A second way to help the player orientating themselves would be by adapting the redstone torch code used in the overworld sipstreams (see this post by Pajoonk)

This thing is definitely happening but the design may change. Any help is welcome, just don't place the slabs directly next to the ice yet so that we won't need to remove them if we would actually put the rails there.

2) Possible second upgrade: merging nether SS with the highway rails

Now the second upgrade, and this is where we need feedback and approval.

While working on the SS, I got the idea to replace the lowered slabs next to the ice with rails basically combining the railway with the nether SS in 1 tunnel (see picture). The rails would be removed from the current highways. Underneath I listed some pro’s and contra’s for this idea. Please provide feedback.

Spoiler

 Pro:

  • No more horses on the rails
  • Redstone torch code would now work for both the SS and the rails, making it easier to spot important places when traveling the rails.
  • Unloaded minecarts won’t interfere with boats. (they are lower than 1 block), so it doesn’t really matter if someone forgets to destroy them. But still destroy them after use please.
  • It’s rather recourse friendly: lowers need for slabs, ice… and the rails are already there in the Highway.
  • ·The space is there

Con:

  • Might trade in the horse problem from the highway for a boat problem
    (Boats can however be destroyed if needed, claimed horses can’t)
  • Loaded minecarts do interfere with boats, this is only a real problem if both rails are in use.
  • The SS is not always exactly above the highway making connections at stops/stations a bit harder to do.
  • Might require a 1 or 2 block raise for the entire Nether SS because we are right on top of the roof of the highway which exists out of slabs. Meaning that if we were to use redstone (normal and/or blocks) underneath powered rails or switches, it would stick through the roof of the highway possibly blocking the path of the horses.
  • "It would be hard to get out of minecart, to make proper station without compromising SS." - Pajoonk
    I hope the added stop-suggestion kinda makes it easier

2mCg1sQ.png 

2.1) Stops

The use of the RT-code will warn players of important stops giving them enough time to stop so that we won’t need a special unpowered rail for every stop.

  • Simple stops: just a simple 1 wide gap in the guardrail as sugested by Pajoonk, it shouldn't interfere with the slipstream
  • Bigger stops: this would use pistons to cover a gap of 2 or more blocks
    Requires a 1 block raise of all the SS to use the redstone required to operate the piston doors without breaking the roof of the highway (unless someone finds an other way). The redstone contraption is really simple and looks like this. The button should be accessible from both sides and lowers the piston-guardrail when pressed. The button might be replaced by a presureplate or tripwire, but this would allow accidental activation by pigmen (who seem to be rather common in the SS at the moment). If the gap woudn't be closed, wall-hugging travelers could 'lose control', thats also why we would suggest against using levers so people can't forget to reactivate the gaurdrails.

    mKN12ga.png

3) To do list/ progress tracker

Spoiler
  1. Nord line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations
  2. East line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations
  3. South line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations
  4. West line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations

 

  1. Far nord line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations
  2. Far east line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations
  3. Far south line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations
  4. Far west line: widen to 3 wide; raise with 1 block; replace packed ice with normal ice; make railway; build walls; build roof; build stations

4) Requirements

These can be dropped off at the ministry’s donation chest near spawn, in the suply cests in the nether SS hub or in my personal MTC slot  (slot 7).

Spoiler
  • Some help is always welcome
  • Clay/wool that can be dyed or has already been dyed in the highway colours
  • Dyes corresponding to the highway colours
  • Redstone
  • Normal ice to expand the SS
  • Rails (both powerd and normal)
  • Stone (normal, normal slabs, stone brick, stone brick slabs, chisseld stone brick) 

 

And @Rodzyn just to let the staff be known on these plans, and get there approval for the second part and the possible 2-3 block raise of the SS.
We where also wondering if we could use the schematica printer function to raise the SS if we where to do that.

 

Thanks for reading, and don't forget to vote.

- Krikkeee

Edited by Krikkeee
updatet progress tracker

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I think the simplest rail stop is just one wide gap - it wont interfere with SS, but requires you to stop exactly at correct block.

I think raising SS by one or two blocks is a good idea. We face similar problems as many users of buildings from 60-80's (at least in my country)
where builders didn't leave any margin in height and width of rooms for improvement, new media etc. We should have known better in the first place...

With SS raised we live open options of more elaborate stations designs, some more redstone for their systems. I would even suggest 3 high space in between roof of highway and blocks on which rails are laid. That allows for even most elaborate redstone contraptions I think. We can maybe reduce it to 2 blocks and than when in need use space below ice.

 

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On 28-3-2017 at 4:21 PM, Pajoonk said:

I think raising SS by one or two blocks is a good idea. 

With SS raised we leave open options of more elaborate stations designs, some more redstone for their systems. I would even suggest 3 high space in between roof of highway and blocks on which rails are laid. That allows for even most elaborate redstone contraptions I think. We can maybe reduce it to 2 blocks and than when in need use space below ice.

I noticed that the west line has 2 big (3 wide) tunnels short after each other, both of which have ice in the floor that should serve as a slipstream. This could make raising that line pretty annoying. I don't remember the other lines having such branches but I might be wrong, they do however have some access points to portals or the highway but raising those shouldn't really be a problem I guess.

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1 hour ago, Krikkeee said:

I noticed that the west line has 2 big (3 wide) tunnels short after each other, both of which have ice in the floor that should serve as a slipstream. This could make raising that line pretty annoying. I don't remember the other lines having such branches but I might be wrong, they do however have some access points to portals or the highway but raising those shouldn't really be a problem I guess.

Vice had some boat-jumping contraption. Maybe that will help.
We can also asses if those other lines are currently in use anyway or are they often used. Maybe we
can divide them. Main line should have priority.
That is of course if we decide to raise SS/move rail.

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UPDATE: We have permission of Rodzyn to merge the Highway rails with the SS. (https://redmine.gophersvids.com/issues/258)

Now that we have the premission, I started working on the east line so this line is currently unavailable. I'm raising the line with 1 block, this should give people that want a bigger stop the option to create the piston doors (from the main topic). I think it should also allow us to make more complex stations if needed but we might need to keep the redstone outside of the tunnels and control the rails with redstone troches (like with the piston doors). The east line is currently the shortest of the 4 main lines and has no branches, so if the raising-changes aren't fully accepted they can be undone relatively easy.

EDIT: east SS has been raised by 1 block and is functional again, the walls and roof need still to be finished/build. There are some gaps in the gaurdrail due to claim issues but it sould still be safe.

EDIT 2: We are moving the rails in the East Highway going from the HUB to the station at JrRedec's portal (somewhere midway). I also changed that 'midway station' quite a bit: expanded it a little bit and made stairs going to a new level which houses the slipstream (and rails when they will be put back)
@Pajoonk the rails are currently in the Rails chest in the Nether HUB (if you would like to start already)

Edited by Krikkeee

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1 hour ago, Draesham said:

I object to the removal of the old rails, build new by all means but leave the old system - too many people have links to it and i for one use it a lot!

Noted, we will do that for the next 'upgrades' and I might/will rebuild the first (moved) part of the east line when I have time.
Hopefully the people will over time start to move their rail connections to the new lines when they are done, otherwise all the work would have been for nothing.

This will require a lot of new rails tough so if someone wants to donate, that would help a lot.

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I honestly didn't read the whole thread TLDR. I skimmed Krikkeee's previous thread though.

I did the rail system on two of the nether directions (S & W? can't remember now) and added most of the button stops to the right lane when traveling out from the hub. Yes the left lane was intended to be used as a non stop to the end sort of express lane.

I noticed that the rails on the East rail (the rail I use) has been moved up to the Iceway.

I have a few opinions regarding this

1) We now have four ways of getting around in the nether: Walking, Minecarts, Boats, and Horses. Do we really need all of them? Isn't the iceway good enough?

2) The railways were originally abandoned for horses once the server got so laggy that it was faster to run than to use the rails. Plus ZH was installed. But since the server was "fixed" ages ago minecarts work much better without too much lag, especially since there isn't a constant 60-80 people on the server.

Because of my limited redstone knowledge the push buttons were the best thing I could come up with. If Krikkee's idea works then I think we should implement it! :D

3) Will the new system work with the iceway in between the rails? I haven't bothered to take a good look at the way it's setup...

I would love to help out with moving or even just creating a new rail system that works better so hit me up on here or Discord.

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6 hours ago, Tink0321 said:

I noticed that the rails on the East rail (the rail I use) has been moved up to the Iceway.

I hope that isn't a big problem, I did however extend the rail all the way to the junction between 5 towers and karaki(?). We could always put back the rails in the east line like I said in a post above. I should probably have waited with removing the rails so people would have the time to move their entrances/ rails when needed, I'm keeping that in mind for the other SS overhauls.

6 hours ago, Tink0321 said:

1) We now have four ways of getting around in the nether: Walking, Minecarts, Boats, and Horses. Do we really need all of them? Isn't the iceway good enough?

Maybe we don't need all of them, but it’s nice to have options. While walking, horses and boats are almost all fast ways of going around they need constant attention,  minecrats can be ridden while AFK. A bonus is that the rails and normal ice combo disables spawns so the SS and rails should always be clear of monsters when everything is done.

6 hours ago, Tink0321 said:

3) Will the new system work with the iceway in between the rails? I haven't bothered to take a good look at the way it's setup...

Well the east SS is finished (except maybe some wall/ceiling designs in netherrack tunnels) so you can try if it works with the ice in between the rails. I haven’t had any problems with it yet.

6 hours ago, Tink0321 said:

I would love to help out with moving or even just creating a new rail system that works better so hit me up on here or Discord.

Nice that would be very helpful, If anyone else wants to help you can always contact me on Discord (the name is Krikkeee), or you can contact someone of the ministry of transport on the server I guess.

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7 hours ago, Krikkeee said:

I hope that isn't a big problem,

No not at all! :)

7 hours ago, Krikkeee said:

minecrats can be ridden while AFK. A bonus is that the rails and normal ice combo disables spawns

Both great points, I didn't even think about AFK usage.

7 hours ago, Krikkeee said:

Nice that would be very helpful

It looks like its all done, I was able to have a better look last night and it all looks pretty good!

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Update:

  • East line:
    • need to expand the line further east so it has acces to the iron farm... (current end: fivetowers/ karaki junction)
    • replace the nether rack sections with proper roofs/walls (very low priority)
    • added rails back in the highway but they also remain on SS level so players can choose which one they will use.
  • South line:
    • no roof past nautilus because there are no other portals until the world border, will add one when there are new portals but it's low priority at the moment
    • complete the rails from claymoria until nautilus
  • West line:
    • connections to the highway still need to be made
    • packed ice needs to be replaced with normal ice
    • add rails

 

The (far) North line: until today there has been no work on this line, but this has changed and suddenly became high priority because there are a lot of problems with this line

  • apparently there are frequent ghast attacks
  • way to big entrances to portals/ other branches that make the boats fly off of the SS. The SS can only have 1 block gaps in its guard-rails or otherwise the boats will fly off. I have placed temporary slabs in those entrances to make the SS work like it should. Only when you add some other guardrails that work and fit the design of your entrance can you remove those temporary slabs.
  • way to many stop blocks,
    Warning: stop blocks are actually not really allowed on any other place than the begin and end of the SS (or under special circumstances approved by the MoT) and will be added by MoT-staff. Any other non approved stop block will be removed and replaced with normal ice. Entrances are supposed to be marked with redstone torches giving player more than enough time to slow down when needed.

Thanks,

Krikkeee (MoT nether SS cusodian)

Edited by Krikkeee

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Happy to announce that the nether SS overhaul is almost over.

  • East line is done up until Fivetowers (about 1000 blocks from HUB)
  • West line is done up until  Pajoonks and Bleepers station (about 1100-1200 blocks from HUB)
  • Sout line is done with up until the new (overworld) world border (about 2000 blocks from HUB), but is only roofed and railed up until the Nautilius (there where no portals beyond that point but this might have changed in the mean time)
  • North line is done up until the start of the far north line (about 600 blocks from HUB)

Next project will be the far north line, and afther that I will probably  overhaul the east line's roof/walls so that it matches the design of the other main lines.

All lines have rails next to the ice, the rail on your right will alway's be a direct track to the point youare looking at, this will either be the nether hub or the world border. The rail on your left will always have toggelable stops every 50 blocks. However this is only the case for the west and north line at the moment.

Feel free to add accespoints, side branches... but please keep in mind that the SS itself should never be interupted and the guard rails should stay intact (only 1 block wide holes are allowed). 

Edited by Krikkeee

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Any chance of getting some kind of access to the roof of the nether hub again as well? Until all the lines got closed up, one could climb out, but now there's no 'nice', direct way up there anymore to hunt ghasts ;)

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6 hours ago, Phelan said:

Any chance of getting some kind of access to the roof of the nether hub again as well? Until all the lines got closed up, one could climb out, but now there's no 'nice', direct way up there anymore to hunt ghasts ;)

I think that there is a ladder close to the HUB in the east or west line that should bring you there,  but a proper stair from the HUB to the roof would be better idd.
I will look into it.

Edited by Krikkeee

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Part 1 of the outer Nether SS ring has been build going from the end of the south line to the point that corresponds with the SE overworld corner (around x1800 z1800). WARNING: it's not yet fully protected like the other main lines but it is functional.
Any donations of stone would be helpful for future expansions (you can drop them in the MoT chest at spawn SS station or at my chest in the MTC at the worldtree).

EDIT: for those willing to help digging/building... remember that the south line is the only line that goes all the way to the overworld world border.

EDIT 2:

  • part 1 of the outher ring is done: south line --> SE corner
  • part 2 is being dug: east line --> SE corner
Edited by Krikkeee

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