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Gopher's Minions
Pajoonk

Horse insurance.

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Quick idea.

Some important horses disappeared lately from /zh plugin. It's tragic, cause much work and time went to breeding them. Also races will be held soon, so missing a champion would be devastating for some stable masters.

I have an idea for horse insurance.

1. We need to determine which hud mod gives relevant info about horse identical (or closest) to info that admins/mods see with their tools.

2. We make screenshot of a horse with this info displayed and send it to pinned forum post (only such posts are allowed in this thread).

3. If horse disappears from /zh we post on redmine with link to forum post and wait when someone from staff will have time to recreate such horse through console.

To minimize workload on staff we may put a hefty price on such insurance, so it would be used only for best and/or most beloved horses (like my 9 speed 3.5 jump Claim ;) ). Price in quartz or obsidian. Something, you can't farm and have to put time to gather. Those donations could be put to good use in the name of our Dark Lord (legendary entity).

Decent horses are pretty cheap anyway so there is no need to make such insurance widely available.

I'm not a breeder (like @sanamia, @PsychoTeddyNesa, @Sosinchen or @jldoner), nor a good rider, nor an admin, so maybe this idea is stupid...let me know.


Regards.

P.

 

Edited by Pajoonk
Given idea for price of insurance. Added mentions of Minions possibly interested in topic.

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/zh info should give basic info for people who just want to be on the safe side and screenshot/save logs with their horse stats. It's not the most precise tool though so for those cases you mentioned (your fastest champion that's 0.01 faster than your second best) I myself use Zyin's HUD to see exact stats for horses.

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5 hours ago, Rodzyn said:

/zh info should give basic info for people who just want to be on the safe side and screenshot/save logs with their horse stats. It's not the most precise tool though so for those cases you mentioned (your fastest champion that's 0.01 faster than your second best) I myself use Zyin's HUD to see exact stats for horses.

I think its crucial that all people insuring their horses will use the same method for determining their stats, at least for insurance screenshot purposes.

Ideally one that give stats identical with those you must write in console to "get the horse back".

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1 hour ago, jeancly said:

Rod zh infoes are extremely wrong sometimes. But if you want a horse to have 13 speed and 13 jump i don't mind :P yup, sometimes the speed height goes bunkers

Are you talking from recent experience or from 1.10.2 times? Because plugin author changed the way it's displayed during 1.11 update.

5 hours ago, Pajoonk said:

I think its crucial that all people insuring their horses will use the same method for determining their stats, at least for insurance screenshot purposes.

Ideally one that give stats identical with those you must write in console to "get the horse back".

We use the numbers that show up when you do /zh info command but we can actually use decimals. I don't know of any other plugin that shows you horse speeds but it'd be best to have screenshots of both /zh info output and Zyin's HUD/similar mod for comparison.

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17 minutes ago, Rodzyn said:

Are you talking from recent experience or from 1.10.2 times? Because plugin author changed the way it's displayed during 1.11 update.

ah it may be from the old version indeed, will check today 

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So it looks like Better HUD is more precise than ZyinsHUD. Thanks for the comparison. I still would want the /zh info output no matter what because it's a good baseline for the actual command used to summon the horse. It also doesn't require additional mods installed.

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I'm using HorseStats (a LiteLoader plugin), it gives me the internal stats, same as zh info, just two decimal points more accurately. No idea about the current conversion of the jump stat into blocks that BetterHUD does, but it at least used to be quite a bit off. When using the formula from the wiki on the internal stats, I get far more realistic values (a donkey with a jump stat of 0.83 can only actually jump 3.86 blocks up, not 4, but BetterHUD at least used to give a jump height of more than 4 in such a case (and the donkey couldn't actually clear a 4-block-height, which is how I found out about that inaccuracy in the first place).

I guess that conversion error wouldn't matter as much for comparing a 'recreated' horse with a lost one, but I could imagine that having the internal stats would be more useful for actually spawning the replacements :)

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I think it's time to get to conclusion. Which method is most precise.

Mind you that it will be used for best horses when .01 of speed difference will be significant... I think with help of mod or admin we can test precision of various hud/stat mods etc... I think that @sanamia @PsychoTeddyNesa @Sosinchen @jldoner @Phelan and other breeders (sorry if I forgot about someone) should come to agreement on that with @Rodzyn

Also, we should agree on price. I suggest quartz. Remember - price is only to reduce workload on admins, to ensure that only horses which are really precious to you (for whichever reason) would be insured. It could be one time payment for lifetime insurance. Up front. For now it could be stored in Shulkers i.e. in World Tree Vault :-)

Shulker with Owner (Horse name) as name (maybe tag to be visible). 9 stacks of Quartz Blocks + 18 stacks of Obsydian blocks. In separate topic: posts with Owner (Horse name) and screenshot with horse and its stats.

All of it a proposal of course.

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21 minutes ago, Pajoonk said:

9 stacks of Quartz Blocks + 18 stacks of Obsydian blocks

Might I suggest gold blocks rather? it is easy to acquire, but still work. You won't afk farm for a stack of goldblocks for a horse that easily can be replaced for 3 goldbars.

Instead of shulkers use a small chest area, write a book with the name of the player horse name the values of the zh plugin and the values of whatever mod is in the end better for it. additionally a screenshot. the upside is a single insurance can carry over to a different horse (by replacing the screenshot and the book) but has to be paid per horse someone wants to insure. 

 

And with the gold from the insurance we make a large horse memorial for the fallen, because why not?

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I'm kind of split on the idea. It's one thing if you lose your horse due to being careless, but what happens if there's ever a legitimate bug with the /zh plugin and horses are swallowed despite the owner being careful and keeping track of them? Seems wrong to charge them anything to be able to get their horses back.

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I was going to say it but I got ninja'd. Horses get lost due to unknown bug (probably MC/Spigot/Paper rather than Zhorse plugin itself). Summoning them falls into free recovery caused by server. Paid insurance policy would only make sense for horses that would die due to player's fault which is almost impossible since the horses are immune to most damage.

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Rodz, as i said - payment is to protect staff from unnecessary work. If you feel it won't be too much work for you and others we can scrap the payment altogether... or make it symbolic, and go to some good cause.

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While discussing horse disappearances and duping with @sanamia I had new idea.

Can Admins, Mods exactly duplicate any existing entity in world (regardless of ZH plugin)?

If so, we may make Horse Vault in some secure location in which insured horses will be kept with exact, duplicated stats, as a template to remake them when/if they go missing.

This brings back need for hefty insurance price since additional work, and workload on server is needed, but could give guarantee of copying exact stats, which will be extremely important with those Champions.

Normal horses can be just recreated by admins with some margins for error, but those Champs...AFAIK 0.01 in stats matters with them. So we can consider this as Premium Insurance in addition to normal one (only screenshot + symbolic price in gold). 

Of course horses copied this way, staying in Vault will be owned by admins, so they could not be freely summoned by original owner.

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The most time consuming process is generally finding out the stats of the horse since most people don't keep track of that. Summoning a new horse for people who provided stats is the matter of running single command so something that's usually done under a minute. Creating a vault for already summoned horses would most likely increase amount of work and time to do it since:

  • We'd summon the horses that could be lost but most likely won't.
  • Will split the work into two parts so with need to teleport to person means overall time is higher.
  • Most importantly would require to build said vault which would take a lot more time than anything else.
On 13/03/2017 at 0:58 PM, Phelan said:

I'm using HorseStats (a LiteLoader plugin), it gives me the internal stats, same as zh info, just two decimal points more accurately.

I've been trying to find that mod but because the name is so generic I'm not having good luck with it. Could you post a link here so I can check it out. Sounds like it would be best way to get precise values for summon command.

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Rodzyn, as I said. This vault will be for people that really invested in few, special horses, for those for whom .01 of stats difference is something they are proud of. For those people I fear those % values will not be enough, ant that's why there is idea of copying to vault, and hefty price of Premium Insurance. Its just an option for anyone who would want to invest to protect beloved horse. Not server - wide plan.

As for building Horse Vault, let's ask around, some people might take pride in building such thing.

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53 minutes ago, Pajoonk said:

Rodzyn, as I said. This vault will be for people that really invested in few, special horses, for those for whom .01 of stats difference is something they are proud of. For those people I fear those % values will not be enough, ant that's why there is idea of copying to vault, and hefty price of Premium Insurance. Its just an option for anyone who would want to invest to protect beloved horse. Not server - wide plan.

As for building Horse Vault, let's ask around, some people might take pride in building such thing.

But the Vault wouldn't be any different than summoning on the spot stat wise. You'd still get the same stats but with Vault we'd have to summon them earlier, store them and then teleport them later.

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As I understand this, you put % values, reported by ZH plugin with rounding to 1.0.

Its not precise enough (probably) to emphasize differences between best champions on server. That's why I proposed copying to Vault.

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2 hours ago, Rodzyn said:

I've been trying to find that mod but because the name is so generic I'm not having good luck with it. Could you post a link here so I can check it out. Sounds like it would be best way to get precise values for summon command.

As far as i known, the only liteloader mod that gives horses stats is HorseAttribs.

And there is a mod called Horse-Stats but it's for forge and it is basically ZyinsHUD.

Edited by Knurtur

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1 hour ago, Pajoonk said:

As I understand this, you put % values, reported by ZH plugin with rounding to 1.0.

Its not precise enough (probably) to emphasize differences between best champions on server. That's why I proposed copying to Vault.

And would still use those values when copying horses into the Vault.

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