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The TPA Discussion


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So, currently (as of typing this) there is a discussion on the issue of TPA. Should it be kept, in a limited way or discarded completely? This thread is for the open discussion of that in an easier to access form.

 

What's everyone's thoughts? Keep it? Let it go? Discuss

I vote against it, due to the increased need of player made transportation which would liven up the more remote areas.  (more than likely)

 

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People are saying they will or won't do things if TPA is taken away.  You really don't know what you'll do as the staff haven't decided what will happen.  People seem to be assuming that if TPA is tak

As Louise said, we have been discussing this as a possible alternative, with either a portal plugin or the warp signs we already have in Essentials, and personally I'm leaning towards it. I think it w

What do you guys have against hermits? Geez!

My argument against the removal of tp is. When a player tps to another player both players have to consent to the tp. In this scenario no one is being affected by this interaction except the two who consented to doing said tp. So anyone who wants them to stop doing this is by definition against their freedom to do so (for whatever reason) I would suggest that there be a compromise (considering gopher does not like this) I think there should be, multiple /homes, a limited amount of tp to players per day, and a timer on when new players can tp to other players. This way new players have to start on their own and can't abuse tp to find locations but dedicated players can use tp a limited amount of times for whatever they want. This encourages exploration as well as trade and discussion about builds. 

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1 minute ago, Master Cire said:

You guys must really fast traveling.

I would say they just don't like having people play differently then them

14 minutes ago, Cyrosim said:

So, currently (as of typing this) there is a discussion on the issue of TPA. Should it be kept, in a limited way or discarded completely? This thread is for the open discussion of that in an easier to access form.

 

What's everyone's thoughts? Keep it? Let it go? Discuss

I vote against it, due to the increased need of player made transportation which would liven up the more remote areas.  (more than likely)

 

I would argue that it would make people more like hermits who don't want to leave their homes because it's so far away from their destination 

Edited by whamburger
He made a typo
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21 minutes ago, whamburger said:

I would say they just don't like having people play differently then them

I would argue that it would make people more like hermits who don't want to leave their homes because it's so far away from their destination 

What do you guys have against hermits? Geez! :P

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Bottom line is TPA goes against what Gopher wanted from the server and few of us were surprised it was there in the first place.

We are aware map is big and people need way to get around and that's why /spawn and /home commands will be left there.

Spawn would actually become trading centre, or we could make teleport spot to Crossroads like some suggested and make that a trading centre. Which would also mean more people would spend their time in public areas and not just their homes.

Current matter is people use TPA not just for trading and travelling to friends but more often to get to places they should explore. I've seen people ask if they can teleport to someone in the desert or blaze spawner.

20 minutes ago, whamburger said:

My argument against the removal of tp is. When a player tps to another player both players have to consent to the tp. In this scenario no one is being affected by this interaction except the two who consented to doing said tp.

That's very poor argument as I could say I could spawn myself few stacks of diamonds or build in creative and it won't affect you. This is multiplayer server though, you can play as you want in singleplayer or your private server but over here all play to set rules.

No one is removing anything yet and we'll also have proper disussion with other admins and Gopher. We're going to come up with good solution to address issues that come with it. For now being able to set 2 homes seems to be generally liked idea.

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23 minutes ago, whamburger said:

My argument against the removal of tp is. When a player tps to another player both players have to consent to the tp. In this scenario no one is being affected by this interaction except the two who consented to doing said tp. So anyone who wants them to stop doing this is by definition against their freedom to do so (for whatever reason) I would suggest that there be a compromise (considering gopher does not like this) I think there should be, multiple /homes, a limited amount of tp to players per day, and a timer on when new players can tp to other players. This way new players have to start on their own and can't abuse tp to find locations but dedicated players can use tp a limited amount of times for whatever they want. This encourages exploration as well as trade and discussion about builds. 

Multiple /homes is always a good compromise. I don't think that the argument of "It's just between two people, what's the harm?" is really that healthy of an argument. Is it bad still? Well yes and no, and I mainly say that because even if there was a limit on the amount of TP's a day/hour or however it would be implemented a fair chunk of people would still only use TP's as their main source of transport. And I just feel like that isn't what this game is about, especially in multiplayer. Everything would just feel more empty without the roads and rails that players make to get from place to place.

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32 minutes ago, Rodzyn said:

Bottom line is TPA goes against what Gopher wanted from the server and few of us were surprised it was there in the first place.

We are aware map is big and people need way to get around and that's why /spawn and /home commands will be left there.

Spawn would actually become trading centre, or we could make teleport spot to Crossroads like some suggested and make that a trading centre. Which would also mean more people would spend their time in public areas and not just their homes.

Current matter is people use TPA not just for trading and travelling to friends but more often to get to places they should explore. I've seen people ask if they can teleport to someone in the desert or blaze spawner.

That's very poor argument as I could say I could spawn myself few stacks of diamonds or build in creative and it won't affect you. This is multiplayer server though, you can play as you want in singleplayer or your private server but over here all play to set rules.

No one is removing anything yet and we'll also have proper disussion with other admins and Gopher. We're going to come up with good solution to address issues that come with it. For now being able to set 2 homes seems to be generally liked idea.

No see your do not understand why my argument makes sense. I would say you should be able to play however you want as long as it doesn't affect others. If you spawn in diamonds you would ruin the economy same as if you build in creative. I would say if you wanted to play in creative then you should ask for a creative server but we already have tp. And it does not give an advantage that others don't have because everyone can do it. And I say because gopher doesn't like it we should compromise

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2 minutes ago, whamburger said:

No see your do not understand why my argument makes sense. I would say you should be able to play however you want as long as it doesn't affect others. If you spawn in diamonds you would ruin the economy same as if you build in creative. I would say if you wanted to play in creative then you should ask for a creative server but we already have tp. And it does not give an advantage that others don't have because everyone can do it. And I say because gopher doesn't like it we should compromise

If you TPA to someone near blaze spawner, get a lot of blaze rods and TP back home in no time while another person has to make 15-30 minute trip just to get to the spawner and then another 15-30 minute to get back, you're breaking the economy just as much. People are teleporting to desert to get sand, teleport back home and repeat. I don't know if you ever watched Gopher streams but he spent weeks building the Nether railway to desert outpost to gather sand Lava Tower glass.

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I've written a very long piece with my thoughts about this issue over here, but it boils down to that my vote is for not removing tpa, but putting a 1h ~ 2h cooldown between uses. Multiple /homes would be another solution that would work IMO, but I would prefer tpa to  remain, for various reasons explained in the post I linked.

Ofcourse, ideal would be tpa with a cooldown and multiple /homes, but either would be ok to me.

Edited by Lert
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16 minutes ago, Rodzyn said:

If you TPA to someone near blaze spawner, get a lot of blaze rods and TP back home in no time while another person has to make 15-30 minute trip just to get to the spawner and then another 15-30 minute to get back, you're breaking the economy just as much. People are teleporting to desert to get sand, teleport back home and repeat. I don't know if you ever watched Gopher streams but he spent weeks building the Nether railway to desert outpost to gather sand Lava Tower glass.

This is not breaking the economy it is using inside connections ( friends) to get a better deal aka Time spent 

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I may be a little off with the whole reason of tpa/ multiple homes, but, personally, multiple homes I feel should be a good alternative and remove the tpa system entirely. We have an entire system of the the nether travel system to reach far off location that all people need to do is try and connect their location to it. Tpa, in a sense, is a form of teleporting one player to another for a reason of the desire of getting to a certain biome or wishing to see a certain biome (I do not even wish to put in the idea of tpa just to trade because the idea of that is as simple as going to spawn).

I propose the tpa should be removed entirely with the installment of the nether highway and a new system of multiple homes be set up. I want to state right now that I don't want to propose multiple homes for a quick tp of going from one's house to a biome of certain desire; it is more for the reason of building.

I really love working on large scale projects that are usually intended to be incorporated in a natural environment of the world and to find the right location, that I believe is most suitable for the specified project, it could require 1000, 2000, all the way to even across the map to set up and begin building; I don't want to find a location and then have to travel all the way back to my previous home to gather the supplies needed to begin the foundations.

This is where I believe the ideal number of /sethome count should be set to 2 /homes and no more. This can have a basic setup of being able to travel back to one's previous house and gather the materials that would be required and quickly work on the project he/she so wishes to commence. As an optional method so it isn't really considered a "fast travel" sort of system, bringing over the materials to set up base and then build a nether portal to connect to the highway is an alternative of going back and forth between homes. I understand that even 2 homes can be abused by players to tp to a certain biome to gather materials, but it is far less game breaking then an infinite amount of tps to players that are in the player in question to arrive at.

I feel this is a balanced out method for a substitute of the /tpa system, but each of us has our own opinion of this and I don't mind anyone spotting flaws in my argument and even make improvements or counter ideas.

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TPA has it's valid uses that suggest it should be left available as a tool, for example last week I TPAd to someone to help figure out why their cobble gen wasn't working, which is a trip that would have taken me half an hour IRL time each way otherwise and would have made me less likely to offer to help (and I'm not sure anyone else would have offered had I not).  On the other hand, general use TPA requests and profferings in open chat are extremely common and should plausibly be against the rules (they are effectively a form of spam when the same people ask for or offer them over and over again).

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I am also in favor of Cherub's Cooldown idea simply because of the size of the server. Initially I was thinking to group as a community and terraform the Nether to make our train system more viable, however the more I've thought about this the more I've realised that simply won't work. The only downsides I can see to the TPA Cooldown system is simply people having to ask "Is helping/seeing this person/thing worth the wait afterwards?" The cooldown might also prove to be rather harsh on the server in it's current state.

If the Cooldown idea simply doesn't work, then it would be better in my opinion to keep TPA as is simply because of one factor: If you don't like it, don't use it, and if you do like it and suddenly it's gone, it makes you want to not play the game in the first place.

An alternate restriction we could use is minimum distance, ie if you are withing 1-2k blocks from the Teleport Target, then you don't get to Teleport. I welcome any critique of this idea as it may help us find a solution that keeps more people happy, and isn't happiness the whole point of the server?

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I like having the option although I do agree it can be abused. So far if I am being honest I have abused the /home command more often than  the tpa. In fact I have used tpa to visit one players home after they visited mine and other than that I only  use it when I am delivering resources that have been requested. Which is why I like the option I suppose you could argue that the journey is part of the gift but after spending 4 hours collecting wool 30 minutes of which if riding there and back I honestly can't say I would be all that excited to share it if I had to make another 30 or 40 minute trip. So the cooldown sounds fine I dont use it that often now. I don't think I could resist using multiple home tho so maybe not good for me :) I am just glad to be along for the ride so I will happily accept any decision made on this.  Oh yeah i just thought of this which kind of applies to this discussion. I use a horse to travel  and obviously a boat for sea voyages but getting off the horse or out of the boat can be a little difficult. I don't know if it can be fixed but losing your horse saddle or boat because you are on someones claim does tend to discourage travel.

Edited by ShawnBoucher
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I think things are fine as is. Look at what we've done in the short amount of time we've been here.  We've done all this with TPA active, and it hasn't ruined the experience. TPA is a tool. We will choose to use the tool as we will, and you know what I've seen? We've been pretty good about it. Some will abuse it, sure. But the rest of us will continue to use it sparingly, if at all, because we prefer that kind of community.

 

Gopher prefers to not fast travel, but I have never seen him begrudge others that do so. He's never been one to restrict freedoms and choices, unless they infringe upon the well-being of others (Just look at the rules of his Twitch account for confirmation of his attitude).

 

As such, I'd say, until such time as TPA infringes on the well-being of the community, continue to allow people the freedom to choose how they are going to experience their time on this server.

Cheers

AP

(that said, I'd never say no to a second /home - just today I was thinking, if only I could have another /home, I'd claim way the heck out here)

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52 minutes ago, ShawnBoucher said:

Oh yeah i just thought of this which kind of applies to this discussion. I use a horse to travel  and obviously a boat for sea voyages but getting off the horse or out of the boat can be a little difficult. I don't know if it can be fixed but losing your horse saddle or boat because you are on someones claim does tend to discourage travel.

I didn't even consider this but I agree, this right here needs to be fixed before anything is done to limit TPA, that is beyond doubt. I couldn't even count the amount of times I have seen someone asking for a mod/admin/anyone's help with this exactly, I myself have been stung by the horse issue in particular, though was lucky that the mod online at the time, JustLouise, also happened to own the claim so things were handled easily, but I doubt it would be as easy for everyone, especially if there is no staff online.

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This is just my lazy idea, but what if TPA required some kind of resource as fuel that is consumed based on the number of blocks traveled? Something that hurts enough to consider walking. Even if that doesn't exist, Essentials could probably be modified to do it.

Disclaimer: I'm not currently involved in this decision process!

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I wouldn't miss the tpa commands if they were removed, but I understand the worries for people with distant homes. So far, I've done all my exploring on foot (or boat) and I really enjoy that. Gopher did that during his streams and it just feels right to me to continue it, and it's in keeping with my usual play style in other games. The only "teleport" functions I've used so far are between spawn and my home, during the period when my only access to the main hub neccessitated almost 10 minutes of rowing or a perillous jump over nether lava that went wrong several times. Now that I have a working nether road, I'm content to use that.

On the downside, I do notice a lot more experienced players hopping all over the place because they know the resources they need and where to get them. I'd thus prefer fixed teleports to a few select hubs. Either that or a massive cooldown that at least slows down the farming.

Edited by Tirius
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To be honest having portal hubs is bad if we don't get additional /home.

 

Some people live in those hubs. Giving them a easy way to get home via portal hub will negate the need to set their own /home in that hub. So they'll be free to /sethome wherever they please.

For example: use /hub to go home, then /home on a mesa biome to harvest it like crazy. Sure, it takes time to get to that mesa biome for the first time, but then the player can simply cycle between /hub and /home as much as he wants.

Completely bypassing the need for nether networks. At least with TPA you need 2 people. With 2 easy teleports people can do MUCH more.

 

This isn't fair for all other people that don't have /hub. If everyone can have 2 /homes then everyone will be able to cycle through /home1 and /home2 like crazy. At least it's a bit more fair this way.

 

Adding /hub punishes people who live far away from hubs or spawn.

 

 

 

 

Edited by cimi
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