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Gopher's Minions

1.3 Beta Patch released


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I've experienced a lot of the mentioned bugs at one time or another, though none of them frequently enough to worry much about them.

I hope the "status menu for settlers" is the glaringly missing UI that should have been there from day 1.  How this game was decreed "finished" without it is a mystery.  Or rather, it should be a mystery how a company could publish a game with such an obvious, glaring defect – but sadly, we know damn well why this happened, because all the publishers have been doing it with increasing amounts of brazenness. :angry:

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My number one issue is the dog getting in my way. It is the absolute single worst problem I have with the game. I am doing the Lone Wanderer perk, so need the dog as a pack mule. Other companions aren't as bad as the dog...why can't you have an option to make him follow 10 feet behind you? Has anyone at Bethesda actually played the game? Do a playthrough with just the dog...I swear it's enough to drive me to become a cat-lover

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6 hours ago, Breakwind said:

My number one issue is the dog getting in my way. It is the absolute single worst problem I have with the game. I am doing the Lone Wanderer perk, so need the dog as a pack mule. Other companions aren't as bad as the dog...why can't you have an option to make him follow 10 feet behind you? Has anyone at Bethesda actually played the game? Do a playthrough with just the dog...I swear it's enough to drive me to become a cat-lover

Followers walking in front of you while shoots has to be a game engine problem because it is in FO3/NV and Skyrim. As many people that complain about this on the Bethesda forum you would think Bethesda would have fixed this or there would be tons of mods to fix it but I only remember one for Skyrim. Don't think I tried it.

Edited by OutandBack
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3 hours ago, OutandBack said:

Followers walking in front of you while shoots has to be a game engine problem because it is in FO3/NV and Skyrim. As many people that complain about this on the Bethesda forum you would think Bethesda would have fixed this or there would be tons of mods to fix it but I only remember one for Skyrim. Don't think I tried it.

I probably never noticed it much as I wasn't a user of followers much in Skyrim, although with a Skyrim companion mod I use called Inigo, the author has done an excellent job of Inigo recognising that he is in your way and he immediately vacates the area around you to give you room. If Joe Public can create with their CK why couldn't Bethesda with all it's resources? 

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17 hours ago, JustTheBast said:

I've experienced a lot of the mentioned bugs at one time or another, though none of them frequently enough to worry much about them.

I hope the "status menu for settlers" is the glaringly missing UI that should have been there from day 1.  How this game was decreed "finished" without it is a mystery.  Or rather, it should be a mystery how a company could publish a game with such an obvious, glaring defect – but sadly, we know damn well why this happened, because all the publishers have been doing it with increasing amounts of brazenness. :angry:

Re settler status:-  absolutely !.

I don't know why Bethesda released as early as they did, but I think outside pressures had something to do with it, maybe left alone we would have seen the fallout 4 release done next year instead.

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Okay, I have to defend BGS a bit.

If you program something and test it, you don't notice everything.

If you have a few people doing the settlement thing and who also test it:
They know how it works, they know how to do some things. So it is actually really really hard to notice if the UX (user experience) is bad. If you ever create a user facing software you will now this. It is hard to get it right.

You only have so many (maybe 100) people testing it. Things will slip through.
As soon as you release this number explodes. Now you have hundred of thousand people testing it. You have a more diverse testing group.
Don't be too hard on devs if the UX isn't 100% perfect when released. It will never be! Be angry if the devs don't fix it.

It gets even harder because you have to create a UX for 2 different end devices, consoles and PCs. A good comparison is creating websites. You have mobile devices and desktops. And the site has to be perfect for both.

There are a few approaches:
Create completly different solutions. This can give the best UX, but it also makes the development a lot harder.
Create one solution. Easiest to create, but most likely not the best UX.
Have an adeptive solution: This is increasingly done with websites (called responsive design). The same page but it adjusts itself to the device. But for games this is more or less the same as creating completly different solutions.

"But they could just have more people test it!" They could. Maybe they should. But think about it: How bad was Fallout 4 on release? I found it very playable. It actually worked! They had a limited amount of testers and I think they used them efficiently. Iron out the smaller problems later.

"But why did it take them so long?" I don't know. Even small changes can mean massive changes in the code. And getting something working isn't easy. Give them time to do it good, not fast.

The keybinds issue: That's a idiotic, avoidable mistake. But actually not so surprising. BGS develops mainly for consoles. (We PC gamers have to accept that.) While this doesn't excuse the screw up it explains it: They know more about console UX than about PC UX. So it is not too surprising they didn't really think about this. (BUT FIX IT! PLEASE!)

 

Programming is hard. And the difficulty increases massively the more people work on something. It actually is a miracle that PCs work. Fallout 4 is, from a technical perspective, really good! It works, it is playable.

Remember: Witcher 3 had key binding issues on PC too. But CD Projekt Red did a great job (imo) in fixing them. Lets hope BGS does the same.

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33 minutes ago, OutandBack said:

Anyone using this patch with mods?

Is it a big mod breaker?

My mods still work fine. They're mostly textures and a few esps, I also have a few that add items like new armors and settlement items. Nothing like the big 200+ settlement item mods but still.

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2 hours ago, VATROU said:

My mods still work fine. They're mostly textures and a few esps, I also have a few that add items like new armors and settlement items. Nothing like the big 200+ settlement item mods but still.

Thank you Vatrou. I am being quite conservative on my mods for FO4 right now. Better eyes, cleaner teeth, louder rain louder birds.

The only mod I can not live without is lowered weapons. Where you are not walking around with your gun semi aiming all the time.

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/522/?

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I find it hard to believe, that even 10 PC/mouse keyboard testers didn't mention having bash and throw grenade locked to the same key was an issue; I honestly think the PC side of testing didn't get much more than a cursory trial. Or like Deus EX in later incarnations PC testers were handed a x-box pad and told to get on with it.

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You K&M gamers need to get with the times like all the developers have and go thru the process of learning how to use a control pad with duel analog joy sticks.

In my best super Mutant voice "We are the future"

Yes yes I know if you are a twitch gamer mouse aiming is micro seconds faster but W3, FO4 hell even Borderlands to name a few have more precision with duel analog joy sticks.

I sure wish the hardware side of gaming would come up with something that combines the best of both control schemes.

Back on topic I decided to not try the beta since I am so close to the end of my 3rd playthru (The Institute ending)

I am worried patching a bunch of fixes so late in ones game might not be a good thing.

Edited by OutandBack
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3 hours ago, OutandBack said:

You K&M gamers need to get with the times like all the developers have and go thru the process of learning how to use a control pad with duel analog joy sticks.

No.  We don't.  There's a reason that a professional KB/M player will beat a controller player in competitive FPS games, it's faster whilst also being more accturate.  As it happens, I do play F4 with controller as I can only run it on PS4.  I've got pretty good at it I think.  But, I am much more accurate and quicker to get the target when I play a game on PC with KB/M.  Additionally, a controller severely restricts how many controls you can bind, causing important functions to often be bound to the same one whilst with a keyboard and mouse, you have many more options, which is especially important in an RPG (which Fallout 4 claims to be and I'm not judging it either way)

 

Yes, for some things I prefer to use a controller.  A lot of GTA V for example (the notable exceptions being running on foot and shooting) I find easier on controller.  When I play Elite: Dangerous I do it with a H.O.T.A.S. because it's a lot easier that way.  If I played driving games, I'd want at least a steering wheel and ideally pedals as well.  There's nothing wrong with having a different control system for different types of game.  The really annoying thing is, if you connect a USB keyboard and mouse up to the current gen consoles, you can use them in some games.  There is no reason at all for developers to not include keyboard and mouse support in most if not all console games as an option.  Especially if they do a PC port which includes it.

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4 hours ago, OutandBack said:

You K&M gamers need to get with the times like all the developers have and go thru the process of learning how to use a control pad with duel analog joy sticks.

In my best super Mutant voice "We are the future"

Yes yes I know if you are a twitch gamer mouse aiming is micro seconds faster but W3, FO4 hell even Borderlands to name a few have more precision with duel analog joy sticks.

I sure wish the hardware side of gaming would come up with something that combines the best of both control schemes.

Back on topic I decided to not try the beta since I am so close to the end of my 3rd playthru (The Institute ending)

I am worried patching a bunch of fixes so late in ones game might not be a good thing.

You K&M gamers need to get with the times like all the developers have and go thru the process of learning how to use a control pad with duel analog joy sticks.

No, we don't.

In my best super Mutant voice "We are the future"

Yeah, if the film Idiocracy was an actual prediction of the future instead of a parody of it.

Yes yes I know if you are a twitch gamer mouse aiming is micro seconds faster but W3, FO4 hell even Borderlands to name a few have more precision with duel analog joy sticks.

Microseconds? Try full seconds.

Your argument of the controller is the future is so back asswards, I just don't have words to explain how wrong you are. The reason you use a controller is because it's forced upon you. And your argument of Gopher being forced to use a controller to play Witcher 3 when he visited CD Projekt Red is probably due to the fact that the console require preview builds to give approval for a game to be allowed on their machines, while PC does not, for the most part. This process can take MONTHS, reason why it was done first, and not the PC controls first. Because key binding on a PC is immensely easier on well, a keyboard and mouse than on a sodding controller, since they have so much more freedom with their controls than with a controller. You have 12 keys (including the analog sticks) on a controller, and just with the alphabet ALONE, you have 26 keys, more than double that of a controller. I could go on, but I'm sure others on here, like @TiDinzeo will do a much better job of ripping your argument apart (mostly because they've actually some sleep).

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5 hours ago, OutandBack said:

You K&M gamers need to get with the times like all the developers have and go thru the process of learning how to use a control pad with duel analog joy sticks.

In my best super Mutant voice "We are the future"

Yes yes I know if you are a twitch gamer mouse aiming is micro seconds faster but W3, FO4 hell even Borderlands to name a few have more precision with duel analog joy sticks.

I sure wish the hardware side of gaming would come up with something that combines the best of both control schemes.

Back on topic I decided to not try the beta since I am so close to the end of my 3rd playthru (The Institute ending)

I am worried patching a bunch of fixes so late in ones game might not be a good thing.

The level of wrong is so high, I suspect you are trolling.

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16 minutes ago, TiDinzeo said:

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention.  If I could play FO4 with keyboard and mouse, I would.

 

I have no problem with people preffering controller.  That's up to them, but please don't try to say that it is objectively superior because it clearly isn't.

 

You can, and then wtfpwn everyone on a competitive server, though because keyboard and mouse is so superior it does feel like you're cheating.

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i suspect this question is not in precision only - its about your 'gaming-place' as a whole

(which might - or might not - be the same as your working place)

should you be sitting by the table with controller(s) before you - or should you rest in a comfortable chair with your hands on your knees ?..

do you remember one of the reasons Gopher prefers his controller? - the position of his hands

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